Correspondence & Warsop

1. Wife of Ellis Needham b 1803;
Mail to SM
Hope you don't mind me contacting you but I'm having trouble tracking down the identity of the wife of Ellis Needham b 1803 in Oldham parents John & Sarah Needham.
I should expalin that I'm a Needham and have taken on the task of compiling a One Name Study on Needham's, the outcome of which is summarised in a website I've built which is free to access: www.nons.co.uk. Currently I'm looking at the Needham's of Oldham.
To date I've found that Ellis (or Elias) has at least 8 children to a wife variously called Matty, Martha and Mary. Of course there could be three different wives/families but I doubt this. You have the wife as Martha Taylor in your tree, born in Liverpool with f Richard m Mary. I have a problem with this as all the census info says that Martha was born in Oldham. I was wondering what evidence you have that Martha Taylor was the wife of Ellis, as I can't find a marriage for them.
I can find a marriage for an Ellis Needham to a Mary Wallwork in 1826 in Middleton. Ellis is described as a wood turner (an unusual occupation but one that coincides with census & baptism info). Middleton is an adjacent parish to Oldham and Mary/Matty/Martha are sometimes swapped around. I believe this is more likely to be Ellis's wife.
I'd welcome your view

Reply from SM:
I'm not really sure where I got the name. I know I didn't make it up but found it somewhere, however, I will have to look into where. I will let you know. I looked at your website. Very impressive. My grandmother's grandmother was Ann Needham who married John Winterbottom. I have been concentrating on the Winterbottoms in Oldham but they all seen to have the same first names making it very difficult. My grandmother was born and raised in Oldham and I wish I had discussed my English relatives with her before she passed away. I am assuming you are in England. I am in the United States.
I will let you know what I find out about Martha Taylor. I have a Winterbottom cousin in Oldham I keep in contact and maybe he will be able to shed some light on this.
Take care and keep searching

Update on children of Ellis Needham b 1803

Mail to SM 14th Apr 2017:
 I've done some more work on Ellis and his family and believe your tree is not quite correct. I don't usually point out such issues but I think you might like to know as it adds a little more to your knowledge about Ann Winterbottom ne Needham.
As you know Ellis had a number of children including Ann and  brothers Aaron, John, Joseph and James. Your tree does not show John but he was bap in 1831 f Elias m Matty in Oldham. Around 1860 he married Hannah who had a daughter Mary Alice and they emmigrated to New Jersey where John worked as a bobbin turner like Ellis his father. He died in 1900 and in his will he mentions his wife Hannah his step daughter Mary Alice Cambell ne Needham and his sisters Ann Winterbottom wife of John and Sarah Mellor wife of John both of whom live in Oldham. So another arm of your family emmigrated to America.
If you think it's worth investigating I can make you a guest to the tree I'm working on which has the detail in or you can provide me with your email address and I'll send you the info I have.

2 Warsop: transcribed records recorded at Worksop library. They agree with the DFHS tree. Will summarise tomorrow

Oldham BBM updated

At last managed a task completed as I've updated the BBM data for Oldham. I reckon I've another 50hrs of slog to get it how I want the records looking. Finding it difficult to let go. Worksop & Warsop here we come.

Breakthrough

1. At last I've managed to llink a Needham alive in the 20th century with  somebody who was bonn in the middle of  the 18th century. How you might ask. Well I reversed my normal  pracice and stated with the first needham listed  in a summary of Needham's in the 1911 census. It was a James Needham b 1848. I would have put the tree work on nons but the new Family Tree Maker   software isn't yet available to do this and Ancestry have turned the synchronisation link off . Not much use. One leaving it late to finalise software and the other turning their software off
2.   Started updating the oldham BBM data on nons                                                        

Oldham annd Great Longstone

1. Oldham: I'm getting bogged down with Oldham. There are to many John's and Jame's all with similar baptism dates so it's become too difficult to sort out who which baptism, marriage and death are linked. I've started a second tree but quickly become stuck. Will  have to take a break from it and regroup. I'll put what I've done onto nons and hope someone can help. The only things I've not yet tackled are wills and newspapers. So I'll not give up yet, just take a rest!

2. Great Longstone; Out in Derbyshire  walking on Friday we stopped at the church in the village - the church and grounds are lovely and well kept. Previously Pete and I had had a look round the church yard but found nothing. As we went into the church grounds Jon and Pete said we know why we're here. No I protested we'd looked previously and found nothing. Let's look at that tomb said Jon. Yes it was the grave of Robert Needham and his family from Rowdale. I remember Pete had looked in this part of the graveyard last time and must have missed it. How he'd done that I'm not sure. As a bonus the church had the graveyard inscriptions in the DARG book. I'll update the trees and nons.

And Still more Needham's in Oldham

1. Well the plot thickens. I've found more Baptisms, burials and marriages. I'm currently on 1020 baptisms between 1680 and 1915, 331 marriages and 598 burials. Currently I'm putting the details into the bbm records and building tree. The trees can be found on Ancestry under Needham Oldham family tree
2.correspondence with BK
BK asks:
Subject:Marriage of William Fox and Elizabeth Needham

OK, I found this marriage on Find My Past, probably it is at Lincs too.

But what do you think? Could this be Elizabeth Needham of the family I am looking at?

Is there any way of finding out more about this William Fox?

 Reply to BK:
I believe I've tracked Elizabeth and William down

I too had found the marriage you've detailed both on Ancestry and FMP. The question is have we got the correct Elizabeth Needham?

1. I've looked for the marriage of Elizabeth Needhams between 1823 (1805+18) and 1835 (1805+30) in Lincolnshire. The list is in the attached spreadssheet under 'EW marriage'. There are 8 marriages including one to William Fox
2. If this is the marriage then William Fox would be expected to be born between 1792 - 1811. I've looked at Lincolnshire baptisms for William Fox and burials (this eliminates a number of those baptised ). But it leaves 17 William Fox's

3. Then I looked at the census and to date have found 2 entries for a WIlliam and Elizabeth Fox in 1851 and 1871 in Lincolnshire; a summary is given on the ' EN marriage' worksheet. I've attached a copy of the census  returns.    The family live in Lincoln in the same house in both census returns. Elizabeth's place of birth is given as Sturton on Stok in 1871 and Merton in 1851. There are no such places in Lincolnshire but there is a Sturton by Stow and a Marton which are village next to Stow. See map.

4. William was baptised in Thorpe on the Hill with parents John & Mary Fox - see William Fox worksheet. In the census he is described as a master joiner
William Fox 19 Jan 1806 1806 Thorpe On The Hill,Lincoln,England f John, m Mary

 
I trust this is of help. Next thing I'll look for is the deaths of Elizabeth and William

Oldham Parish Data on line

18/19 Mar.
1. Oldham; Have now loaded the baptism, burial and marriage info that I've found pre 1837. The files are large. Work continues on the trees and family links. Have managed to link a baptism to a burial and marriage (BBM) for most records - I think. It's opened my eyes about the need for rigour

2. Tom's Wedding. Son 2 got married to no progress this weekend - except I didn't sleep Saturday evening so I rationalised the Lincolnshire BBM data I've found. Should be on line this week

3. Met a person with Everest as a surname and thinking of the Indian Surveyor general after whom Everest is named I've built an Everest tree. They originate in Kent

4. Will summarise the Warsop/Worksop findings and add pictures to trees

5. Need to folloow up on BK data

Oldham continues

1. Oldham. This is a saga. The number of baptisms has no reached 1000 from 5 different databases and what started as a quick look see is turning out to be a marathon. Have managed to link most burials to baptisms and have started on the marriage BUT every third person is a John or James or Betty or Mary .... so it's difficult
2 Correspondence with BK.
I've started looking for the info you're after but I'm not sure I've got much further than you:

What can we say:
1. George was born in Stow in 1781 f Jno  m Mary
    He had a sister Elizabeth b 1784 - may be relevant see later
2. George Marries Ann Hill in 1803 and they have  children Elizabeth, Mary, Sarah, and John born in Stow and William, George, Ann and Joseph b in Glentham
3. George dies in 1822 and Ann dies in 1825. When Ann dies the children's age would range from 21 (Elizabeth) to 3 (Joseph). So what happened to the children? Who cared for them?. Usually it's either the eldest child or grandparents or aunts or uncles

4. Joseph is the youngest and in 1841 there are two Joseph's b around 1822 - see spreadsheet. A Joseph b 1821 lives with an Elizabeth Nedham b 1791. She looks to be the mother of the children in the household but she could be Elizabeth George's sister and Joseph could be George's son - a long shot. One thing to note birth dates in the 1841 census are not reliable and are often rounded to the nearest 5 or 10.
5. I believe I've found George in the 1841 census. There is a George Nedham b 1821 working on a farm as one of 4 farm servants in Glentham -- see spreadsheet. This would say that in 1841 he was single and I can't find a marriage for a George in Lincolnshire between 1841  and 1844. However, the data base for marriages is not 100% accurate

6. There are 3 John Needham's b around 1812; see spreadsheet. John 1 b 1811 is a mill wright living in Horncastle with an Eleanor who could be his wife or sister. Do you know John's occupation in Canada? The other two John's are either an agricultural labourer (john2) or farmer ( John 3) both born in 1816. John 2 is living in Surfleet  with a Mary aged 60 who is probably John's mother - I think we can discount him. John 3 I would say is more promising and is living in Louth with the Turworth family and a female of his age called Ann Needham; I presume this is John's wife. There is a marriage of a John to an Ann in 1832 in Langtoft; John would be 19/20.

7. I've started looking at William but nothing obvious stands out

When parents die with young children either close relatives look after them or they get scattered. As you know doubt know the 1841 census does not give a presons  place of birth - that comes in 1851 -  or their marriage status and the age of the person is not reliable.

However, I think we've found George and I'll spend another evening trying to make headway later in the week.
Spring appears to be with us so I've been out in the garden and because I'm creating new flower beds I've been moving a lot of earth; so I'm tired and in need of sleep.
Out of interest the house we live in is a farm house and was built in 1792. Around the time George was born. A further coincidence is that my dad, grandfather and great grandfather were all George Needham's
Trust you can make sense of the spreadsheet and could you give me access to the diary - I like old books

BK has provided access to George's diary - what a gem

3. Warsop & Worksop PR. Have been to Worksop library and managed to find 16th & early 17th century entries for BMB's. Will summarise tomorrow

4. Contact from YC through Genereunited