Sunday, 21 May 2017

Needham's Todmorden

1.Needham's Todmorden Correspondence with SH

Hello Nigel

I've been trying to find out where my Needham family originally came from and during one of my searches came across your site. Looking at some of the information you've compiled I think I may have got a couple of generations further back in my research and my family may link into the Harthill Needham family,  but before I go any further I thought I'd get in touch to see what you think.

My Needham family turned up in Todmorden in the 1810s. I've checked the Parish Registers and the first time the Needham name appears is in 1815.

Samuel Needham seems to be the one who first came to Todmorden with his family. Samuel died in Todmorden in 1833 and according to the burial register was 70. I've been able to find two Samuel Needham's whose births would fit with this date, one baptised in Sheffield in 1773 (father Robert) and one baptised in Masborough Independent Chapel, Rotherham (father George, mother Susanna) in 1776. Of the two, my inclination is that Samuel is the son of George as his first son was called George (my 3 x g.grandfather) and he had 2 other sons, John and Thomas but didn't have a Robert. (George and Susanna had 4 sons baptised in Masborough, their others were also George, Thomas and John!).

In 1798 Samuel married Hannah Cawthray in Bradford and their first 4 children (born between 1799 and 1811) were all baptised there. Their 5th child, Ann, was the first one to be baptised in Todmorden in 1815. Samuel was an Iron Moulder as was his son George.

The only George Needham who had a wife named Susanna at the relevant time led me to George Needham who married Susanna Dobson in Rotherham in 1763 and the only George I could find who was probably of the right age was George, son of George who was baptised in Harthill in 1740.  Find My Past have the registers for Harthill on their site and there are lots of George's there - but I think the line may lead back to George son of Robert.

I'm currently testing the FTM software and because I didn't want to mess around with my main Ancestry tree I separated the Needham branch off. My tree is private but would you like me to give you access to it so you can see what I have?

I hope to hear from you and welcome your thoughts.

1.2 NGN Reply

Good to hear from you and that you found the website of some use; that's what it's there for.  Like you I have the same problem with my family line; I can trace them back in Sheffield to 1768 but then the trail goes cold. In fact this is the reason the 'nons' website was established as I accumulated so much data in my search for my relatives that I realised that others could use. In addition it's clear now that the Needham's moved from the land into the rapidly growing industrial northern cities during the industrial revolution ie the 18/19th century's. So we are in a period when people moved around (mainly within a 25/50 mile radius), they are changing occupation, it's before the general register and census records (ie we are dealing with parish registers) and the males are most frequently called George, John, Thomas, Joseph and William. Your summary is a classic of the times. Sorry for the bad news which you are clearly well aware of. BUT I think I can help but not until the beginning of next week as I'm away from my PC from tonight and over the weekend.

In the period you are dealing with, an iron foundry was set up in Low Moor Bradford and a number of Needham's  were head hunted from foundry's in Rotherham. It led to a civil court case which was reported in the papers. If I can find it this evening; it's one of the Rotherham/Sheffield/Ecclesfield trees I'll give you the details. After a bit of searching I found them in my own tree but they are not much use I think. They are the sons of Matthew Needham & Elizabeth Lee;
NEEDHAMMatthew Needham & Elizabeth6 Nov 1774244Matthew Needham Sheffield
LEEElizabeth Lee< 1777

NeedamHannah27 Feb 1799
NEEDHAMGeorge Needham15 Oct 1797245Matthew & ElizabethSheffield
NEEDHAMEster Needham26 April 1801245Matthew & ElizabethSheffield
NEEDHAMThomas  Needham12 Aug 1804
NEEDHAMCharles Needham8 Dec 1805
NEEDHAMJoseph Needham28Oct 1807245Matthew & ElizabethWentworth
NEEDHAMBenjamin Needham25 Oct 1807245Matthew & ElizabethWentworth
NEEDHAMElizabeth Needham25 Dec 1809245Matthew & ElizabethWentworth
NEEDHAMMary Needham8 Aug 1813245Matthew & ElizabethEcclesfield

They are in tree Needham 5 family tree on Ancestry. I'll make you a guest.
The Low Moor Bradford data I have is:


18014361823 09 07.GeorgeNEEDHAMThomasMoulderLydiaLong Row


23518761826 03 26.ElizabethNEEDHAMThomasMoulderLydiaLow Moor

25120071827 01 14.BettyNEEDHAMCharlesMoulderHarriotLow Moor

24419521826 08 13.ElizabethNEEDHAMGeorgeMoulderCatharineShelf


21817411825 06 12.MarthaNEEDHAMCharlesMoulderHarrietGlasshouse

25420321827 02 25.ElizabethNEEDHAMBenjaminMoulderMaryLow Moor

If you have other data I'd be grateful for a copy
I must say I think I have found a better fit for your Samuel. He is a son of George & Sarah and was baptised in Sheffield in 1762. I can't find a marriage or death for him in Sheffield:

NEEDHAMGeorge Needham3 may 1719203William NeedhamSheffieldcutler
COPELANDSarah Copeland<1730


NEEDHAMJohn Needham2 Feb 1750212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMTamer Needham1 Jan 1751212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMGertrude Needham 25 Oct 1752212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMSarah Needham 30 Sept 1753212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMGeorge Needham 4 Oct 1754212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMAnn Needham 11 Apr 1757 212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMSarah Needham 11 Oct 1758212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMWilliam Needham 20 Aug 1760212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMSamuel Needham 12 April  1762212George Needham Sheffieldcutler
NEEDHAMThomas Needham 5 July 1763212George Needham Sheffieldcutler

I hope this helps

It's much easier, I find, to look and compare trees and I would be grateful if you could either send me either a gedcom file or give me access to your Needham tree. I have the same problem as you re trees as all mine are on Ancestry and linked to FTM. There are 200 of them! So you can imagine the issues I'm facing. I've already had to regenerate trees a couple of times. I can't believe what Ancestry have done or the lack of preparation by the new owner. It's a good job industry/NHS/Local Government/Banks etc are much more customer focused. Still it's only a hobby. At least that's what I tell myself

Hope this helps and I must apologise for the mistakes and poor presentation but I'm about to shut my computer down!

1.3 Reply from SH
Thank you for your email and for replying so promptly (particularly as you were going away) with lots of information. The Samuel you've found looks very promising and is, as you say, a better fit. I'll look and see what else I can find out about this family.  I've deleted George and Susanna as Samuel's parents in my Ancestry tree, so my tree now starts with Samuel and Hannah.  I've given you access to it. 

I've also attached a spreadsheet showing the Needham births and deaths from the Todmorden Parish registers (to 1837) and the marriages that took place at St. Chad's, Rochdale. I've checked the Heptonstall registers too and there aren't any entries in those registers. (Todmorden was partly in the parish of Rochdale and partly in the parish of Halifax)

I looked up Low Moor foundry, Bradford, as Samuel and Hannah were married in Tong, Bradford in 1798 and the foundry was started in 1790 I think Samuel must have been one of the earliest Needham's to travel there to work. I'd love to know why they then moved to Todmorden. There was a foundry at Salford, Todmorden which is very near to where they lived so I imagine they moved to work there.

I don't know how you cope with the number of trees you have on Ancestry and FTM!  I bought the Roots Magic software last year, because they said they'd be linking with Ancestry - but they haven't managed to yet!

 1.4 Reply from NGN
 Thanks for the mail and info. I'm away from my pc this weekend so I'll look at the data you sent when I get home

You said that Samuel was 70 when he died in 1733 but his burial record says he was 60.  That being the case then your original suggestions are more likely. 

Will be in touch

1.5 Reply from SH:

Thanks Nigel. I don't know why I suddenly decided Samuel was 70 and then perpetuated it by putting 70 in the spreadsheet I sent and agreeing that the Samuel you'd found was a better match (I've just checked the Lancashire Parish Register transcription book and that quite clearly states he was 60 too, so the mistake is all mine!) You'll need to amend my spreadsheet - sorry.  I'll put George and Susanna back in the tree as Samuel's parents. I have a bit of information on his brother Thomas too, which I found by accident last night, so I'll add that too.

I hope you enjoy your weekend away and I'll keep in touch.

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